…Damn it, now I really have to start drawing actual family trees for the hyenas. I’m starting to get a little lost as to who’s related to whom, and how.
Yes, but as far as Boneclaw Mother’s relationship to them, I agree with Beth – the name ‘cousin’ is probably commonly used among the tribe even with those not directly cousins.
I doubt a woman that old would be the sister of someone still of a good age like Ed.
Remember, it’s been 17 years sense Ed was exiled, and some time passed between the birth and that exile – a few years, maybe, at the outside, so Ed’s child would be, let’s say, 17-20.
Assuming Ed was of similar age when mated, he’d be 40-ish.
Boneclaw said all her brothers were dead in Digger’s initiation ceremony. If Ed was her bro, I think she would have said something different, showed more emotion when her and Owl Caller were talking to Digger about Ed, and besides, she seems quite a bit older. Older than Owl Caller even. And if she was Ed’s aunt, that would make Owl Caller her brother, but once again, she said all her bros were dead. So, at best, if they are related, I would say she’s Ed’s great-aunt. *If* they’re related.
But other than all of that, I third Beth’s notion that everyone that’s not immediate fam is cousin.
Is it just me or has anyone else noticed that, for a skilled hunter, the last two times Grimeyes ‘snuck up’ on Digger she was making more noise than a herd of alcoholic elephants at an open bar? (yeah, no idea where that one came from.)
Yes, but the last two times she wanted to be noticed. bear in mind she stalked Digger for quite some time before being noticed on her first meeting (although the Shadowchild sensed the hyenas) and when she wanted to find Digger to warn her about the Cold Servents she could track her to Ed’s cave and walk right in without either Digger or Ed waking until she raised her voice. Given we know Digger sleeps lightly enough to punch a hyena in the nose when one charges her in her sleep, that’s saying something. although to be fair, Digger had had a lot of poppy milk at the time, maybe she was not as alert as she was when she first met Ed the day Grim Eyes came to the cave. Who knows?Personally, I still wouldn’t want to to play terminal hide-and-seek with her unless i could strap bells to her and tie an open flask of conc. ammonia around her neck, and even then I’d want to stand in the middle of a very wide empty space holding a crossbow and a very large stick. And even then only in the day time.
According to the cast page, Grim Eyes is Boneclaw Mother’s granddaughter, making Digger Grim Eyes’ aunt. And Ed’s sister, if I’m figuring it right. Which must have made the exile hard for Boneclaw Mother…
I think the “cousin” Grim Eyes states is shorthand for “cousin once removed”, if I have the term right. Or… Technically speaking, Digger is her adopted aunt(kudos Rista-liehna), but if you insert a fictional mother in between Boneclaw Mother and Digger – making the generation match up better – you would, in that case, have a cousin.
Not quite — a cousin once removed is the relation between you and your first cousin’s child, or vice versa. I think Grim Eyes is just using the term “cousin” in its Shakespearean meaning — any near-ish relative that’s not immediate family.
I don’t know if “cousin” is being used here to mean “daughter of my aunt” or if it’s being used in the generic “distant relation” sense.
However, I’m pretty sure Grim Eyes is the little one Ed gave up everything to protect. We know Bloodmare was the mother of Blood Eyes and Bloodtail, and Grim’s grandmother. That could mean that Grim Eyes is Bloodtail’s daughter, or daughter of some unknown member of the Blood family, but Owl Caller and Boneclaw Mother were discussing that Grim Eyes had “thrown off the family madness”, and that he had good blood on his father’s side, while looking very sad…
You’re getting your Bloody hyenas mixed up. Bloodtail is explicitly Grim Eyes’ aunt, and it’s (very heavily) implied that Grim Eyes is the second child of Blood Eyes and Ed. I still think that Boneclaw Mother took Grim Eyes as her adoptive granddaughter after her birth mother was killed and her birth father was exiled. That theory makes the most sense to me in the context.
I read “cousin” as the hyena honorific for another member of the tribe. Grim Eyes isn’t thrilled by the concept, but she’s nothing if not Lawful, so she uses it.
I don’t know if anyone remembers “I Love Lucy”, but “Tennessee” Ernie Ford gave a brief summation of this phenomenon. Something to the effect of: “Well, sure! Down there we call everybody ‘cousin’…’Course, down there just about everybody IS everybody else’s cousin.”
@RyRi: but do they truly act as mates? though you’re right, if Boneclaw mother is the mate of Owl Caller, then she is Grim Eyes Aunt in law, and Digger would be her cousin *nods*…. except the fact that the character description of grim eyes in the cast page says she is granddaughter of boneclw mother… argh, back to the family tree drawing board….
I’m starting to think that hyenas just don’t use the family terms the same way we do…
OK…Grim Eyes is Boneclaw’s granddaughter. I assume she’s also related to Blood Eyes because of the similarity of name. Which makes her Ed’s daughter. Owl Caller is Ed’s uncle, right?
@RyRi – I actually got the impression that Owl Caller might be Boneclaw Mother’s mate when they were first introduced. We’ve never actually seen a hyena couple, so we have little way of judging what their marital relations are like.
And in between all the discussion of family trees, Digger remembers to get the important relationship in. Cousins may not always be friends, and friends need not be cousins; one cannot choose one’s family, but one always chooses one’s friends.
Okay, so: Owl Caller is Ed’s uncle, making him Grim Eyes’ great-uncle. Boneclaw Mother pretty much has to be Owl Caller’s generation rather than Ed’s.
IF Owl Caller is Boneclaw Mother’s mate, that would make her Ed’s aunt, Digger Ed’s first cousin, and Digger and Grim Eyes would be first cousins, once removed (which are still cousins). Otherwise, yeah, it’s probably just that everybody not in your immediate family in the tribe is basically called “cousin”, if not “sister”.
Also, important note: Grim Eyes would probably not have been much more than five when Ed left, possibly less – unless the cultural taboo of recognizing the Eaten is just that strong, her reaction indicates she probably wasn’t old enough to remember him. So she’s probably around Digger’s age, most likely just a year or two older.
I’m inclined to agree with RyRi and Matthias; in accordance with the adage regarding hoofbeats, the most likely explanation is most likely the explanation, and if Boneclaw Mother.is Owl Caller’s mate, it would make perfect sense that Grim Eyes now considers Digger to be her cousin.
Of course, it’s equally possible that everyone in the tribe is given the honarary title “cousin”, as Lee suggested, but this seems less likely to me, given that they appear to prefer “sister” or “brother” in that regard; this I surmise based on how often each word has been used by tribal hyenas thus far.
Ok, cousin…. Makes Boneclaw Mother her aunt… So… Ed’s sister? Ah, poor Boneclaw Mother…
…Damn it, now I really have to start drawing actual family trees for the hyenas. I’m starting to get a little lost as to who’s related to whom, and how.
Lanthir: The good thing is, usually someone will point it all out in the comments when any kind of relationship turns up. ;D
I dunno – I suspect that with hyenas, *everyone* is cousins in the tribe. So it’s still ambiguous where Boneclaw Mother fits in.
lol. I like the ‘eh?’ face that Grim Eyes makes when Murai tries to ensure Digger’s escape.
Posts on the last story Ed told Digger came to the conclusion that Grim Eyes was Ed’s daughter.
Yes, but as far as Boneclaw Mother’s relationship to them, I agree with Beth – the name ‘cousin’ is probably commonly used among the tribe even with those not directly cousins.
I doubt a woman that old would be the sister of someone still of a good age like Ed.
Remember, it’s been 17 years sense Ed was exiled, and some time passed between the birth and that exile – a few years, maybe, at the outside, so Ed’s child would be, let’s say, 17-20.
Assuming Ed was of similar age when mated, he’d be 40-ish.
Boneclaw said all her brothers were dead in Digger’s initiation ceremony. If Ed was her bro, I think she would have said something different, showed more emotion when her and Owl Caller were talking to Digger about Ed, and besides, she seems quite a bit older. Older than Owl Caller even. And if she was Ed’s aunt, that would make Owl Caller her brother, but once again, she said all her bros were dead. So, at best, if they are related, I would say she’s Ed’s great-aunt. *If* they’re related.
But other than all of that, I third Beth’s notion that everyone that’s not immediate fam is cousin.
Is it just me or has anyone else noticed that, for a skilled hunter, the last two times Grimeyes ‘snuck up’ on Digger she was making more noise than a herd of alcoholic elephants at an open bar? (yeah, no idea where that one came from.)
Yes, but the last two times she wanted to be noticed. bear in mind she stalked Digger for quite some time before being noticed on her first meeting (although the Shadowchild sensed the hyenas) and when she wanted to find Digger to warn her about the Cold Servents she could track her to Ed’s cave and walk right in without either Digger or Ed waking until she raised her voice. Given we know Digger sleeps lightly enough to punch a hyena in the nose when one charges her in her sleep, that’s saying something. although to be fair, Digger had had a lot of poppy milk at the time, maybe she was not as alert as she was when she first met Ed the day Grim Eyes came to the cave. Who knows?Personally, I still wouldn’t want to to play terminal hide-and-seek with her unless i could strap bells to her and tie an open flask of conc. ammonia around her neck, and even then I’d want to stand in the middle of a very wide empty space holding a crossbow and a very large stick. And even then only in the day time.
According to the cast page, Grim Eyes is Boneclaw Mother’s granddaughter, making Digger Grim Eyes’ aunt. And Ed’s sister, if I’m figuring it right. Which must have made the exile hard for Boneclaw Mother…
I think the “cousin” Grim Eyes states is shorthand for “cousin once removed”, if I have the term right. Or… Technically speaking, Digger is her adopted aunt(kudos Rista-liehna), but if you insert a fictional mother in between Boneclaw Mother and Digger – making the generation match up better – you would, in that case, have a cousin.
Not quite — a cousin once removed is the relation between you and your first cousin’s child, or vice versa. I think Grim Eyes is just using the term “cousin” in its Shakespearean meaning — any near-ish relative that’s not immediate family.
I don’t know if “cousin” is being used here to mean “daughter of my aunt” or if it’s being used in the generic “distant relation” sense.
However, I’m pretty sure Grim Eyes is the little one Ed gave up everything to protect. We know Bloodmare was the mother of Blood Eyes and Bloodtail, and Grim’s grandmother. That could mean that Grim Eyes is Bloodtail’s daughter, or daughter of some unknown member of the Blood family, but Owl Caller and Boneclaw Mother were discussing that Grim Eyes had “thrown off the family madness”, and that he had good blood on his father’s side, while looking very sad…
You’re getting your Bloody hyenas mixed up. Bloodtail is explicitly Grim Eyes’ aunt, and it’s (very heavily) implied that Grim Eyes is the second child of Blood Eyes and Ed. I still think that Boneclaw Mother took Grim Eyes as her adoptive granddaughter after her birth mother was killed and her birth father was exiled. That theory makes the most sense to me in the context.
…or Boneclaw Mother and Owl Caller could be mates, which would make everything fall into place perfectly…
I read “cousin” as the hyena honorific for another member of the tribe. Grim Eyes isn’t thrilled by the concept, but she’s nothing if not Lawful, so she uses it.
I don’t know if anyone remembers “I Love Lucy”, but “Tennessee” Ernie Ford gave a brief summation of this phenomenon. Something to the effect of: “Well, sure! Down there we call everybody ‘cousin’…’Course, down there just about everybody IS everybody else’s cousin.”
@RyRi: but do they truly act as mates? though you’re right, if Boneclaw mother is the mate of Owl Caller, then she is Grim Eyes Aunt in law, and Digger would be her cousin *nods*…. except the fact that the character description of grim eyes in the cast page says she is granddaughter of boneclw mother… argh, back to the family tree drawing board….
I’m starting to think that hyenas just don’t use the family terms the same way we do…
Eds sister in law
OK…Grim Eyes is Boneclaw’s granddaughter. I assume she’s also related to Blood Eyes because of the similarity of name. Which makes her Ed’s daughter. Owl Caller is Ed’s uncle, right?
…dang I’m confused.
@RyRi – I actually got the impression that Owl Caller might be Boneclaw Mother’s mate when they were first introduced. We’ve never actually seen a hyena couple, so we have little way of judging what their marital relations are like.
And in between all the discussion of family trees, Digger remembers to get the important relationship in. Cousins may not always be friends, and friends need not be cousins; one cannot choose one’s family, but one always chooses one’s friends.
Okay, so: Owl Caller is Ed’s uncle, making him Grim Eyes’ great-uncle. Boneclaw Mother pretty much has to be Owl Caller’s generation rather than Ed’s.
IF Owl Caller is Boneclaw Mother’s mate, that would make her Ed’s aunt, Digger Ed’s first cousin, and Digger and Grim Eyes would be first cousins, once removed (which are still cousins). Otherwise, yeah, it’s probably just that everybody not in your immediate family in the tribe is basically called “cousin”, if not “sister”.
Also, important note: Grim Eyes would probably not have been much more than five when Ed left, possibly less – unless the cultural taboo of recognizing the Eaten is just that strong, her reaction indicates she probably wasn’t old enough to remember him. So she’s probably around Digger’s age, most likely just a year or two older.
I’m inclined to agree with RyRi and Matthias; in accordance with the adage regarding hoofbeats, the most likely explanation is most likely the explanation, and if Boneclaw Mother.is Owl Caller’s mate, it would make perfect sense that Grim Eyes now considers Digger to be her cousin.
Of course, it’s equally possible that everyone in the tribe is given the honarary title “cousin”, as Lee suggested, but this seems less likely to me, given that they appear to prefer “sister” or “brother” in that regard; this I surmise based on how often each word has been used by tribal hyenas thus far.