Digger
February 2nd, 2010

Digger

*cough* Even I am a little surprised at how fast things are moving…I just realized that one of my little mental landmarks–one of the set-pieces I was working towards–is pretty much the next thing that happens, and…uh…wow. We’re really pickin’ up speed….

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Discussion (33)¬

  1. Luna says:

    Wooooooah. Action-packed -showdown-time!

  2. Richard says:

    Wills Ursula to decide to to a major digression into the life of metaphorical pigeons :-)

  3. Bartimaeus says:

    Wait, he’s going to….

    CRAP AND CRUD!!

  4. Tindi says:

    Oooh! So it’s kickie-the-Jhalm time? Yaaay!

  5. Faranior says:

    Well that kinda sums it up, all be it that it would be rather disturbing if it weren’t done by the Ganeshstatue. I mean Jhalm IS a servant of ALL gods, and yes I know it has been said before, and therefore de facto a servant of He-Is too. This probably means that he cannot leave He-Is in that (almost) dead state even thought it would mean releasing SGV. Perhaps he doesn’t even believe the stories of SGV or simply hasn’t heard them, although I think that’s unlikely.

  6. jassius says:

    Is that me or everyone seems obsessed with breaking the god’s shackles lately? I would have some doubts about freeing an ancient as a bright plan, but I will wait see how things develop.

    As for voting, last month Digger and #30 grew votes at about the same speed, so if the “voting mass” remains constant its position is due somewere below that. On the other hand being on page #1 will possibly get new readers and subsequently new votes.
    *sits back*

  7. Mark Antony says:

    *facepalm*

  8. Atre says:

    Votey: http://topwebcomics.com/vote/10180/default.aspx

    I think Ursula does brilliant work :-) . Fingers crossed that she ends up high on the list

  9. Marrock says:

    Our favorite wombat needs to get all “Remember tunnel 17!” on Jhalm’s veiled backside.

  10. Mani says:

    Remember those Cold Servants that killed at least one Hyena hunter, injured several others, and had Digger running like crazy to escape?

    Remember how Jhalm took those guys out himself?

    Yeah. I’m not so sure what makes everyone think Digger can knock Jhalm around. Either way, this should be very interesting to see unfold.

  11. the unclean one says:

    (cue the escape/evasion scene)
    this ought to be fun
    : )

  12. Silverfish says:

    Mani’s got a point, there.
    I still wouldn’t want to face a wombat with a pickaxe, though.

  13. Hawk says:

    Jhalm faced down the cold servants, it’s true, but Grim Eyes came out better in the confrontation between herself and Jhalm…and Grimeyes is totally on Digger’s side.

    Also, what about Murai? Granted she may not have the ability to pull rank on Jhalm but doesn’t her involvement color things somewhat for Jhalm?

    I really look forward to seeing how this all works out. Yes, things are picking up speed…! Just like the really fun part of the roller coaster!

  14. Skydancer says:

    Underground is much more Digger’s turf, and she knows the way. AND she can get through the holes more easily, Jhalm will have to widen them — or will he, if the Cold Ones got out…. Oh, my. Tis a race, methinks.

  15. TekServer says:

    In a way, I can’t help but like Jhalm as a character. I mean, he’s not unequivocally evil (like SGV and its followers, which are the only unequivocally evil characters in the story – unless you count vampire squash, of course); he’s driven in doing what he thinks is right. And yet he’s so detestable …

    How different would the story be if told from HIS viewpoint …

    ;)

    (And don’t forget to VOTE! See Atre’s post above for the link … )

  16. Jewelwolf says:

    My money is on Digger making another hole in the tile of the temple. If he doesn’t get to that god and kill him FAST, there will be hell to pay.

  17. Cheri says:

    Jewelwolf,

    Digger is a girl!!

  18. Rowanmdm says:

    We haven’t seen Shadowchild in a while now, and I’m thinking he’s about due for another appearance. Maybe he’ll show up when Jhalm tries to unshackle the god and save the day with a host of good demon children! Now wouldn’t that be awesome?

  19. Sondre says:

    *Dramatical boxing commentary voice* It’s coming down to… a shooowdown!!

  20. Tindi says:

    Me again. Just agreeing with TekServer. I think I may have said it when we first met Jhalm (on both archives :P )- I hate myself for liking him sometimes, but I like him as a character. I’m still kinda irked about the messenger rat, though :(

  21. Hunter says:

    He’s going to break that god out? What if it’s still alive and it wakes up?

  22. wicketbird says:

    Hawk said, “Yes, things are picking up speed…! Just like the really fun part of the roller coaster!” Thing is, the fun part is usually not too far from the end…

  23. JewelWolf says:

    @Cheri Sorry about that. I was typing fast. It’s just a typo.

  24. BunnyRock says:

    @TekServer

    “SGV and its followers, which are the only unequivocally evil characters in the story – unless you count vampire squash”

    How could we not count the vampire squash? The question is, Are the Squash Neutral Evil and SGV Chaotic Evil, Or is SGV Neutral Evil and the Squash Chaotic, or are the BOTH Chaotic evil? Are demons, or for that matter squash, capable of informed decision making and can choose to follow or break laws to their own advantage, or are they pre-programed to break them even to their own disadvantage. I may even argue the Squash are Lawful Evil: vampires tend to be. They seem to run of fixed rules, admittedly those rules are “growl” and “trundle around the field and try to suck the blood of the living with non-existent teeth” but unless conduct a experiment and see how they respond when ordered NOT to do so by a duly constituted authority we cannot tell if they are lawful, chaotic or inclined to pick and choose depending on situation.

    I love this comic. Where else can you argue the character alignment of squash?

  25. TekServer says:

    I would think, by definition, any entity that is not capable of displaying a preference for Law or Chaos (or whose preference, whatever it may be, is impossible to determine by available means) would of necessity be classified as Neutral (with regards to Law and Chaos, at any rate). So I vote for Neutral Evil for the Squash.

    SGV and the Cold Servants are harder. Typically, in most systems (gaming and, in my limited experience, mythological) demons tend toward chaos by definition, whereas devils tend toward lawful tendencies (making “bargains” and “contracts” and such). Given that SGV has been positively identified as a “demon”, and given his general behavior thus far, I would definitely classify him as Chaotic Evil. (Though he did have kind of a “bargain” thing he was trying to do with Shadowchild, so an argument could be made for Neutral, or even Lawful, as well.)
    The Cold Servants are minions of SGV; minions generally tend toward the alignment of their chosen master, but these have shown fanatical and unwavering loyalty, so I would be more inclined to classify them as Lawful Evil.

    For that matter, I would probably classify Jhalm’s alignment as Lawful Neutral, with strong Evil tendencies, but that would only be a relative assessment for Game purposes … ;)

    > I love this comic. Where else can you argue the character alignment of squash?
    Amen!
    :mrgreen:

  26. Silverfish says:

    “Are demons, or for that matter squash, capable of informed decision making and can choose to follow or break laws to their own advantage, or are they pre-programed to break them even to their own disadvantage.”

    Taking Shadowchild into consideration with what SGV talked to it about, I’d say demons aren’t pre-programmed; their eventual alignments depend on what they’re taught. There just never happened to be a demon taught by a.. I guess Digger would be Lawful Good? before Shadow.

    …I feel like a nerd.
    Love it :)

  27. Siege says:

    @BunnyRock As my dad has said before, most animals and animal-intelligence monsters have an alignment of Neutral Hungry.

  28. TekServer says:

    Ooo, this is fun; alignments for everyone!

    Digger: … yeah, I guess I can go with Lawful Good, though her version of Lawful is a lot different from Jhalm’s version of Lawful …
    Surka: Chaotic Good
    Grim Eyes: Lawful Neutral (and yet a third set of rules for the “Lawful” part)
    BoneClaw Mother: Neutral Awesome (with overtones of Good)
    Shadowchild: … um, Neutral Good?
    Herne: … I think True Neutral, but with slight leanings toward Chaotic and Good …
    Ed: … wow, Ed is a tough one. I’m leaning toward Lawful Good, despite the oddity of someone of that alignment actually coming up with sufficient motivation to murder his spouse in her sleep (not that he didn’t have the strongest motivation, but still … ).

    Who’d I miss?
    :mrgreen:

  29. Silverfish says:

    “Who’d I miss?”
    The Hag!!

  30. BunnyRock says:

    It’s hard to place Digger, as we haven’t seem much of the bad side of wombats. without knowing how a bad wombat would behave it’s hard to tell if Digger is Lawful of Neutral good, simply because we have never seen her in a situation where doing what she considers good would require breaking one of her own peoples laws. It’s not really sensible using the term lawful good if someone is in a situation were none of their peers are present and their own laws do not apply. If we had other wombats, even if they were evil wombats, her reaction to their behaviour and theirs to her’s would make her easier to place in the spectrum of wombat behaviour. Given we know she pays her taxes and double checks her maths whenever explosives are involved I might otherwise say lawful, however her reaction to hearing the full story of Ed’s banishment I would argue puts her firmly into neutral good: She didn’t give a damn in that incident what the laws of Ed’s tribe said despite being an honorary member. As she felt unable to reconcile her respect for law with her sense of injustice at Ed’s treatment I would say that makes her Neutral Good I.E. perfectly lawful so long as she believes the law is just but willing to reluctantly put it aside when she believes it isn’t (take Bonclawmother who although she upheld the law did so only because if she broke it it would have had disastrous repercussions, again neutral good behaviour), unlike say Murai who I feel would try to reconcile Law and her feelings no matter how difficult/disadvantageous/sanity destroying that would be, or Surka who just does whatever she feels is right without worrying about the law, and just so happens to have enough people who agree with her definition of “right” to get away with it.

    As for Ed… Neutral good? He did break what appears to be his cultures biggest taboo when he could no longer feel that not doing so was right, but it’s not as if he went into it in any way easily. (And that’s got to be the biggest understatement I’ve used in describing a webcomic since I described Drip for ”Jack” as “[someone you would] least want to spend ten minutes locked in a phone booth with”)

    As for Jhalm.. some where in Lawful Neutral or Lawful good. He’s never shown to be doing anything other that what he believes is right. That’s not to say a crossbow bolt to the head wouldn’t fix a lot of problems for everyone, but the sad truth is not everyone who aids harm or evil is a bad person, and not everyone who aids what is seen as good does so for good reasons. Hence my views on violence. All malicious violence is inherently wrong (playfighting and violent sports I have no problem with: I’m a Rugby, Gaelic Football, Hurling and Cricket fan after all. And if Cricket isn’t violent your not trying hard enough.), but occasionally necessary to prevent a bigger wrong: Being violent is never inherently good, but it takes more than good deeds and sometimes more than good people to serve good, so do what’s necessary and check your conscience lots against your standards and against others.

    To be honest I’m surprised we have so many neutral good’s. Most people fall into what some call “the big L” I.E in an arrangement of nine squares arranged into a bigger square, with whatever a particular culture or group considers “good” at the top and “evil” at the “bottom” and with “lawful” on the left and “chaotic” on the right, the vast majority of any group will fall into the left hand side, lawful good, lawful neutral and lawful evil, with the majority of those who do not into neutral evil, simply as each society defines its laws and being based on goodness, those who break normal behavior are branded as both evil and beyond the law, yet most of them will not be truly chaotic. People are social animals, we are largely pre-programmed to follow laws unless they actively inconvenience us or unless we want to make a statement of how different we are from the culture we were raised in, even if we are not nice people. It’s perfectly possible to follow the laws and be amoral or to be a total evil minded little twat and never break a single law. To be neutral good means to be willing to respect the law and live well with it most of the time, but able to both detour from it and be willing to take the consequences of that when you feel you must. By contrast chaotic good requires the slightly easier A, you don’t mind breaking a society’s rules whilst being able to act in a way that is still seen as good by said society, which is easy enough if you break the rules with enough style and vaguely good intentions or B, you start of as lawful good and the rules change, or the rules don’t change but the situation changes until the rules have in effect turned on you, or C, insane/bored/making a statement/drunk/delete where inappropriate.

    Ahhh, character alignment: the number one cause of d20 related blunt-instrument trauma since 1974! Or D6 if you are a GURPS bunnies and barrows freak like me, but still, a bag full of dice thrown across a table is still a bag full of dice thrown across a table.

  31. Tindi says:

    I like Tek’s “Neutral Awesome” for Boneclaw Mother, although I think “True Badass” would suffice for her as well. It’s awesome; the comments on this page have made the context-specific ad go to D&D Online. xD

  32. TekServer says:

    You make a good case for both Digger and Ed being Neutral Good; I can buy that, though Digger still seems to have Lawful tendencies to me, because she seems to have her own set of rules that she lives by. How much those rules coincide with Wombat Society rules remains to be seen. As for why so many Neutrals, consider the source: the characters are created by Ursula, who [it seems to me] is an artist first and a storyteller second. (Note this is a statement of my evaluation of her characteristic tendencies, not her skill! I think Ursula is a consummate storyteller … ) Artists, by their nature, tend to swing away from the Lawful alignments and toward the Neutral and Chaotic areas (it’s a right-brain dominance thing; and a discussion of brain geography and dominance as it relates to alignment categories is a whole new topic, perhaps left for another time … ), at least in my observation, so it stands to reason that her (likely favorite) characters would tend to follow her alignment preferences. (If I ever did any storytelling, my favorite characters would likely bend toward Neutral Good as well; I see that as best representative of my own alignment, though a touch of OCD probably bends me toward Lawful a bit as well … )

    As far as Jhalm goes, I don’t think I could ever classify him as Good. He’s only been shown to care about the well-being of one person as an individual – Murai. Beyond that, he seems only concerned with the rules – his rules – with no real regard for the effect of those rules on actual people, or any moral standards of right and wrong. Hence, I stand by my initial judgment of his alignment: Lawful Neutral, because his rules are paramount to him, and occasional Evil tendencies because he’s willing to be cruel and uncaring to enforce those rules (Murai notwithstanding; even Evil people can have an “exception” that they care about).

    Now, the Hag: hmm, I would say definitely Good (though perhaps not quite as strongly so as some of the other characters); and she’s willing to stand up to the Veiled (a local Recognized Police-type Authority) for the sake of her patient, so I’d say not Lawful, but she doesn’t really strike me as Chaotic either … I think we have another Neutral Good here.

    Wow, this was originally intended to just be a “short response”, but I kept finding more “short responses” I wanted to add to it, until it became another epic … :?
    Oh well. On to the new page!

    :mrgreen:

  33. Kisame says:

    Wait. Does that means the comic is Gonna end soon? NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

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