I recall a version where her children murdered *her*. Interesting stuff, legend.
Black Mother… it;s the kind of thing a child would make. Because the gods as Adults tell them make no sense when you see people starving… I still remember the shock of seeing the Crucifix, with Christ on it. Dead. It… um. Bothered me.
In Panama they have a variation on the Llorona myth called the Tulivieja/Dulevieja, — a woman with flowing hair and blood-red eyes who haunts the rivers and curses/preys on incautious passersby because she is cursed for having drowned her children (or some similar crime).
Interestingly enough, the Kuna natives of Panama/Colombia refer to themselves as “Dule” (which can function as both a singular and a plural noun meaning “Person/People”), and divide the human race into three groups: “Dule”, “Waga” (literally “strangers” but used generally to refer to latinos, whom they hate), and “Mergi” (from “American” because the US defended them in a revolution — essentially a positive version of “gringo”). All Dule and Mergi are generallly believed to be good, while Waga are believed to be inherently oppressve, evil & untrustworthy, so I suspect the myth of the Tuli/Dulevieja is somehow a reflection of generations of Panamanian/Kuna interactions.
Sooo, the homeless goth kids made up a story about allegory Mary killing allegory Jebus, and the story in turn created evil allegory Mary. Murai met evil allegory Mary, which drove her nuts, so she moved towns, became a Hindu acolyte, then quit that to join a nondenominational militant ninja sect…. and is currently hanging out in a graveyard because she is depressed. Is that about right?
Oddly enough this idea that a though can actually become real if enough people concentrate on it as a scientific name, which I fail to remember right now.
You may remember an episode of Supernatural where the ghost was a ghost story turned real because of a symbol due to this exact same thing.
Paranormal groups online often discuss the topic, I remember reading an article about a group that tested this theory by imagining a ghost with certain characteristics and trying to make him come to life and it apparently did, on a second attempt they focused on Santa Claus and apparently suddenly heard a ghostly Ho ho ho.
I followed the discussion where the Slenderman was created, at some point they also started talking about this, because they had all started having very realist dreams or creep out experiences with him. You can either believe that indeed so many people were thinking about him, he was becoming real and starting to manifest or simply because people where thinking about him they started dreaming about him and seeing him every where, like after you see a horror movie that scared you you will see the creatures from the movie in every shadow or reflection for a while.
Anyway at the time they had this creepy mantra which I loved:
“The more you think about him, the more real he becomes
The more real he becomes, the more you think about him
Until one day…”
Trogdog: Almost. As I understand it, she was an acolyte, then she quit to be a ninja monk, then the crazy, and now she’s… kind of an acolyte again, I guess?
@Nivm Christians use the crucifix symbol not to remember it “the torture”, but because it represents the very moment of the sacrifice that God did to save humanity out of love, and the price paid for the redemption of all humankind, something that unified them and something that should not be forgotten… At least that’s what i got from catholics. I have heard that some protestans prefer the cross without the image of Christ because it represents his resurrection (as in his absence).
Frankly, symbols evolve with time. That’s the way they work, they do not have intrinsect meaning and depends entirely on the context of the culture and time you read them. The cross is hardly recognized as a symbol of torture nowadays (I mean, most people realize this, but is not really its primary meaning). It’s original meaning is quite lost by now, ask most modern people and they would inmediatly recognize it as a symbol of christianity (and then, wheter if that meaning is positive or negative would depend on their personal experience! symbols are subjetive). Probably romans and hebrew people of biblical times would have recognized it mostly as a device of torture and from then it have been a long road to the modern meaning. I think that if you find odd the use of a symbol you should try to trace back the evolution of its meaning. The same goes for the roots of some words, some modern “positive” words come from very shady origins, but such is the nature and complexity of human language š
@Mad Luc There’s a version of la Llorona story in which la Llorona was actually Coatlicue, a mexica Godess(Mother of gods and men), that was seen crying over the massacre in Technochtitlan(Today’s Mexico City), lamenting over the death of her children by the hand of the Spanish Conquerors, and the inminent fall of the Mexica Empire. I think the story is different enough than other versions I have heard, that’s why i like it š
@Lica: speaking as a practicing protestant, but with tones of catholic relatives (well… hundredweights), the empty cross/vs crucifix debate was always one of the things that struck me as petty. Then again, my family is from the republic of Ireland and largely catholic, and Iām English and protestant: the sheer pettiness of so many horrific acts in the troubles has always got me down because somehow I feel Iām to blame (I also blame myself for Zimbabwe, the treatment of Australian aborigines by early settlers, for the partition of India and Pakistan, and for the war of 1812, and anyone killed by a repeating rife, a steam engine, electric moots or anything else inviented by the British, which is… really quite a lot: being English with my sort of mind and guilt sensitivity sucks). The only cross I own is a home-made one fashioned from Lego that I put up when I was thirteen and mortally afraid of both vampires and Pooka and needed a way to keep them out. For me the important thing about the Crucifixion is that I believe it happened, however you want to represent it is just fine by me.
*hugs Murai*
Ahhhh!!! It’s La Llorona!
La Llorona, except she’s not sorry or looking to get into heaven. This story’s like a weird combo of the stories of Christ and La Llorona.
Well, depends on what version of La Llorona, you know. There are plenty of them, and in many of them the mother doesn’t kill her children, he he.
I recall a version where her children murdered *her*. Interesting stuff, legend.
Black Mother… it;s the kind of thing a child would make. Because the gods as Adults tell them make no sense when you see people starving… I still remember the shock of seeing the Crucifix, with Christ on it. Dead. It… um. Bothered me.
I do find it odd that the christian symbol is a device of torture and execution.
In Panama they have a variation on the Llorona myth called the Tulivieja/Dulevieja, — a woman with flowing hair and blood-red eyes who haunts the rivers and curses/preys on incautious passersby because she is cursed for having drowned her children (or some similar crime).
Interestingly enough, the Kuna natives of Panama/Colombia refer to themselves as “Dule” (which can function as both a singular and a plural noun meaning “Person/People”), and divide the human race into three groups: “Dule”, “Waga” (literally “strangers” but used generally to refer to latinos, whom they hate), and “Mergi” (from “American” because the US defended them in a revolution — essentially a positive version of “gringo”). All Dule and Mergi are generallly believed to be good, while Waga are believed to be inherently oppressve, evil & untrustworthy, so I suspect the myth of the Tuli/Dulevieja is somehow a reflection of generations of Panamanian/Kuna interactions.
…..rustle rustle…scribble scribble
Sheesh I love the story so much, but the comments are causing me to take notes to follow up on later too – thnx!!
Sooo, the homeless goth kids made up a story about allegory Mary killing allegory Jebus, and the story in turn created evil allegory Mary. Murai met evil allegory Mary, which drove her nuts, so she moved towns, became a Hindu acolyte, then quit that to join a nondenominational militant ninja sect…. and is currently hanging out in a graveyard because she is depressed. Is that about right?
So much shocking drama and it is finished with: ” and now your crazy “
Repeating those two comments just make them sadder.
“And then you met her.”
“Yes”
“And now you are mad”
“Yes”
Just doesn’t work the same…
Oddly enough this idea that a though can actually become real if enough people concentrate on it as a scientific name, which I fail to remember right now.
You may remember an episode of Supernatural where the ghost was a ghost story turned real because of a symbol due to this exact same thing.
Paranormal groups online often discuss the topic, I remember reading an article about a group that tested this theory by imagining a ghost with certain characteristics and trying to make him come to life and it apparently did, on a second attempt they focused on Santa Claus and apparently suddenly heard a ghostly Ho ho ho.
I followed the discussion where the Slenderman was created, at some point they also started talking about this, because they had all started having very realist dreams or creep out experiences with him. You can either believe that indeed so many people were thinking about him, he was becoming real and starting to manifest or simply because people where thinking about him they started dreaming about him and seeing him every where, like after you see a horror movie that scared you you will see the creatures from the movie in every shadow or reflection for a while.
Anyway at the time they had this creepy mantra which I loved:
“The more you think about him, the more real he becomes
The more real he becomes, the more you think about him
Until one day…”
Trogdog: Almost. As I understand it, she was an acolyte, then she quit to be a ninja monk, then the crazy, and now she’s… kind of an acolyte again, I guess?
@Nivm Christians use the crucifix symbol not to remember it “the torture”, but because it represents the very moment of the sacrifice that God did to save humanity out of love, and the price paid for the redemption of all humankind, something that unified them and something that should not be forgotten… At least that’s what i got from catholics. I have heard that some protestans prefer the cross without the image of Christ because it represents his resurrection (as in his absence).
Frankly, symbols evolve with time. That’s the way they work, they do not have intrinsect meaning and depends entirely on the context of the culture and time you read them. The cross is hardly recognized as a symbol of torture nowadays (I mean, most people realize this, but is not really its primary meaning). It’s original meaning is quite lost by now, ask most modern people and they would inmediatly recognize it as a symbol of christianity (and then, wheter if that meaning is positive or negative would depend on their personal experience! symbols are subjetive). Probably romans and hebrew people of biblical times would have recognized it mostly as a device of torture and from then it have been a long road to the modern meaning. I think that if you find odd the use of a symbol you should try to trace back the evolution of its meaning. The same goes for the roots of some words, some modern “positive” words come from very shady origins, but such is the nature and complexity of human language š
@Mad Luc There’s a version of la Llorona story in which la Llorona was actually Coatlicue, a mexica Godess(Mother of gods and men), that was seen crying over the massacre in Technochtitlan(Today’s Mexico City), lamenting over the death of her children by the hand of the Spanish Conquerors, and the inminent fall of the Mexica Empire. I think the story is different enough than other versions I have heard, that’s why i like it š
Double posting, woo!
@Lica: speaking as a practicing protestant, but with tones of catholic relatives (well… hundredweights), the empty cross/vs crucifix debate was always one of the things that struck me as petty. Then again, my family is from the republic of Ireland and largely catholic, and Iām English and protestant: the sheer pettiness of so many horrific acts in the troubles has always got me down because somehow I feel Iām to blame (I also blame myself for Zimbabwe, the treatment of Australian aborigines by early settlers, for the partition of India and Pakistan, and for the war of 1812, and anyone killed by a repeating rife, a steam engine, electric moots or anything else inviented by the British, which is… really quite a lot: being English with my sort of mind and guilt sensitivity sucks). The only cross I own is a home-made one fashioned from Lego that I put up when I was thirteen and mortally afraid of both vampires and Pooka and needed a way to keep them out. For me the important thing about the Crucifixion is that I believe it happened, however you want to represent it is just fine by me.
@Bronze Golem: I think the word you’re looking for is “Tulpa”.